PHCad not processing a file.

[baccus61]

Hey Marco.
I hope your trip was a success.

I will write a simple start up guide to this PHCad to get everyone up and running and explain a few things that had me puzzled for a while with the interface when I get everything up and running and sorted out.

Here is what is happening.

I loaded up a simple Vector file of a snowflake in.cdr file format with just an outline and no holes in it and set it to the bottom left corner at 0,0. It has only an outside path.

I set the line width to "Hairline" and "No Fill"
.
I then press the PHCad Icon in the top menu bar and it takes me to the PHCad interface.

The vector drawing is loaded into the interface at the middle of the page and not the 0,0 position. I haven't been able to find a way to get it to load to the 0,0 bottom left corner when starting up.

I then set the laser to "cut" and set the speed and power in the cut settings boxes. typically 20% power and 100mm/sec just for a trial.

Then I press the "start" tab in the interface and nothing happens except that the timer on the LCD screen starts to count and the board goes into run mode and won't process any commands except stop/pause. The laser head doesn't move.

I press "clip box" and nothing happens. I stop the process then press "run box" and nothing happens. This is the same on the LCD panel as well as on the computer screen.

One thing I have just thought of while writing this is that every time I start up the PHCad I move the vector to the lower bottom left corner but the "Origin" is set at about 3/4 the way across the table and about 1/4 way up. I am wondering if the file won't process because the laser head is behind the "origin" point and is down and to the left of it. I will go and try this in a minute..... Nope! It made no difference where the laser head was or where the vector file was on the screen. I tried to process it from all 4 corners and also the middle with no results.

I can fire the laser by pressing the "light" button on the screen as well as on the LCD panel.

The air assist doesn't come on either but that usually doesn't turn on unless the file is being processed.

I have included the vector file as well as the .INI profile for your tech guy to have a look at. I hope it is something simple that I am doing wrong and not a software problem.. You said you tested the board before you sent it so it can't be that.

regards

Richard

[baccus61]

hello Marco,
The new software version went a long way to making it work but now there is another problem.
When I process a file it is mirrored in the horizontal or X axis. This is the same for cutting as well as engraving.
I can fix this by mirroring the file but it isn't how it should work. I can't find a setting to change this.

I still can't get an engraving without having an offset. This varies from about 0.5mm at 50mm/sec to about 1.5mm at 200mm/sec. No matter what I try I cannot get the laser to engrave a single vertical line. I always get a double line with the width varying depending on how fast I engrave.

Here are some settings I tried with the Return Settings tab (only a small fraction of them as I have been doing this for 2 days now)
50mm/sec and 0.01 and 100mm/sec and 0.10
50mm/sec and 0.10 and 100mm/sec and 0.30
50mm/sec and 0.20 and 200mm/sec and 0.80
50mm/sec and 0.60 and 100mm/sec and 0.80
100mm/sec and 0.10 and 150mm/sec and 0.20
100mm/sec and 0.05 and 150mm/sec and 0.10
50mm/sec and 0.08 and 150mm/sec and 0.10
etc etc etc.......

I tried this with MANY different variations and the only way I can get a thin line is to engrave at speeds lower than 20mm/sec and the line is still engraved with an offset only very small. It is just thicker due to the laser beam width
I checked for a loose pulley and also whether the belt was damaged (it's brand new) and found no problems with the hardware at all. Everything is tight and tensioned.
I have completely rebuilt the laser with all new parts: motors, drives, rails, mirrors, lens assembly, laser tube and power supply and belts on the X axis. the Y axis belt and pulleys are the only thing I haven't replaced and I still have the same problem as I had with the old controller.
I removed the 3:1 reduction drive on the X axis belt drive and now have a 1:1 with a 12 tooth pulley both ends.

The outputs to turn on and off the air assist is still the same as the old board and all the pins are always on at 4.7 volts. This doesn't change when processing a file whether cutting or engraving.
I wish I knew where the problem is......
Can anybody shed some light on anywhere I might be going wrong. Any suggestion no matter how stupid it might seem will be taken into consideration.

The set up I have isn't elaborate and is just motors and drives so it shouldn't be this hard to sort it out.
I'm getting very frustrated with the whole thing after 12 months of rebuilding it with numerous software/ hardware combination's and still have the same problem. I CAN"T ENGRAVE!!!
regards
Richard.

[Tech_Marco]

Rich:

To my knowledge, it's not the card issue as they did run the test on the board they sent you when I was there. Unless something new that they haven't tried it. They asked if you can send me a list of your parts you have (in detail), so that the can exame what's wrong with it.

1) motor
2) stepper
3) laser tube (type)
4) CO2 power supply
5) connection.

The offset should 'not' be caused by the card. Usually it's caused by the belley

Marco

[baccus61]

Thanks Marco.

It's really annoying me because I can't seem to pinpoint where the problem lies.

I have a Pentium4 1.6 Gig computer with 4Gig Ram and a Nvidia 512meg display card.
I use the USB outputs from the mother board to connect to the Leetro DSP but I also have 6 other add on USB ports with a controller card on the mother board that attaches to the front panel of the Laser table.
The drives are Gecko201 10 micro step stepper drives from http://www.geckodrive.com and I have tuned them for mid band resonance which seems to be quite good.
100watt glass tube long-life laser from ColeTech with matching power supply.
Electrostatic aquarium pump for air assist.
The relays are solid state relays (SSR's) that switch at 3-32 volts DC.
The power supply for the Leetro DSP V2.0 board comes from the 12 volt supply on the computers 500 watt power supply.
The table size is 1400mm on X axis and 800mm on Y axis.
My limit switches are normally open (N.O) micro switches and I have them set at the top Left of the table and the 0,0 at the bottom left.
I usually drive the laser head to a position close to where I sit which is about 600 down in Y axis and 800 across in X axis from the left and set my "Origin" point there where I do most of my work. I sit at the right hand side of the table close to where the the laser tube is.

I have a 24 volt power supply for the rotary attachment that I haven't tried yet which is made from a 240 - 32 volt toroidal transformer, 15000 Mfd capacitor and 30 amp Bridge rectifier.
The power supplies for the computer and peripherals are run through a 150 watt uninterruptable power supply to filter any spikes or drops in the supply voltage.

I use TDH rounded profile belts on the drives as they are the better ones around that fit the pulleys without any slop or play. The X axis uses 12 tooth 3mm profile belts 16mm wide 1:1 ratio. (I will be converting this back to 3:1 soon to get better performance from the motor as it loses steps at about 220mm/sec)
The connection is the same as is outlined in the wiring set up on your site and checked with the wiring diagram from Coletech.

The laser fires and turns on and off fine in the software. I can get it to engrave at 5% power and 50mm/sec. Max power is suggested at 28mV (never to go over 32mV)
I have the power limited in the software at Max 50% right now until I get everything running properly.

I can engrave at 150mm/sec X unilateralism and the engravings are very good and up to what I think would be the standard for this laser with single vertical lines and good clean detail.
I just can't seem to get a vertical line using X-swing and the smallest I can get the offset is about .25mm wide at 50mm/sec which shows up at about just under twice the line thickness (estimated).

If I set the return offset at about 50mm/sec and 0.10 and 200mm/sec at 1.2 , I get 2 lines at about 1.5mm line spacing.
If I slow the speed down to about 100mm/sec or slower I can use a magnifying glass to see the alternating spots being burned on the forward and return strokes giving it the appearance of 2 lines.
That's all I can think of right now.
I hope the tech guys can make it better.

Thanks for your patience helping me through this Marco. I just hope other people don't have to go through this when they get theirs up and running and I sure will give them a helping hand if they need it. I am getting to know the system better and better all the time and should be used to all the features soon. I wish some of them were documented in the manual to make them a bit easier to set up.

regards
Richard.

[Tech_Marco]

Rich:

I need you to send me some pictures of images that worked out from the laser. I really don't know how to explain to the engineer, it's better for them to look at the result.

1) Mirror X
(this one could be easy fix. There is a setting that allow you to set either Left homing or Right home. What is yours homing by default? Top Right corner or Top Left corner?
They made two version, one for each. I just uploaded one and I forgot which one I did. But, there is a setting where you can manually set that up

2) Offset: need to see images. I been asking for it but you haven't sent me one yet
3) Motor and drivers images: for them to investigate

Note, they don't understand English and I've to explain word by word to those guys. But I'm not an expert of engraving so pictures will helps me a lot.

Marco

[Tech_Marco]

One tech said, the offset issue is most likely caused by the poor connection or wrong connection between the driver and the main board. Do you know which configuration are you using? There are so many different way for connection. Common +, Common -, Differential, and.... u better to send your connection diagram for review. Also, look at the manual, there is four different connections and it's quite standard for connecting a stepping motor driver to the main board and to the motor. It's brand dependence. Different brand driver use different setup on connection.

PHCad_TopRigh_TopLet_Homing.jpg (21.92 KiB) Viewed 4759 times

I've attached a screen shoot of the Top Right and Top Left menu bar for you to review.
You use it to define the HOME when parking.

[Tech_Marco]

Here is a suggestion to your connection:

Motor Driver_______________DSP Main Board
DIR ....................................#2
STEP ..................................#5
COMMON .............................#6


Try that!

[baccus61]

Thanks Marco,
I only just saw your previous posts after I wrote the following post.
I will give the suggestions a go in the morning and do a small diagram of the wiring to and from the DSP to show the tech guys how it is wired up. All help goes a long way to resolving these issues. Thanks.
Do they have any suggestions on why the outputs are always on at 4.7 volts? This is the same as the last board was and I can't help think that it is something simple that is missing. I turn the air assist on and off manually at the moment. it sure would be nice if it turned on and off in software.

*************************************

Hi Marco,
I have another little problem that I can't seem to find the answer to as well.
When I cut a vector file, apart from it being mirrored, the laser cuts every individual line in the file separately. It does not cut all the way around in one smooth action instead it cuts a line then stops and then cuts the next line etc etc.
I have changed the cut mode from speed cut to precision cut with no difference and I have also changed the line gap from 0.10 to 0.05 with no change in cutting and I have combined the lines in Corel and also used different methods of grouping, welding and combining etc. all with the same results.
This is probably a simple switch somewhere but I am unable to find any reference to it in the manual and I can't seem to change it with any thing I do.

I made a few engravings on mirrors and card stock today using X-unilateral mode of engraving, and while it was slow to finish the engravings (nearly 3 times as long as before), they were some of the best I have done on the machine so far even with the 65mm focal length lens I am using.

I feel I am so close yet so far with it. I hope it can all come together soon.

regards
Rich.

[baccus61]

Quote :

2) Offset: need to see images. I been asking for it but you haven't sent me one yet
3) Motor and drivers images: for them to investigate

End Quote:

I will get some pictures of the problem tomorrow and send to you.
I'm sorry I haven't got around to this yet but it slipped my mind to do that. I will see if I can get some good close ups and also the settings I use. It should make it a lot clearer for you and the tech guys.

It must be a bit of a pain having to explain every thing word by word. If the manuals were a little bit better then there probably wouldn't be as many questions on how to set up. Some settings are completely missing from the manual but I think/hope they will probably update this as they get more time and newer versions.

First impressions are good on the whole package and I can't wait to get it right.

Today I also put the 3:1 reduction belt drive back on the X axis to get a bit more resolution. I don't think I needed to but it is a lot smoother with it.

Thank you.
Richard.

[baccus61]

Hi Marco.
I set my limits up again and fixed the mirroring problem. It was out all over the place and this is what I had to do.

OPTIONS- DEFAULT - Left up.
OPTIONS - SYSTEM SETTINGS - WORK SPACE- Machine Zero - left up.
PAGE ZERO - Left down
OPTIONS - POSITION RELATIVE - Left down
LIMITS set to HIGH
Swap X+, X- limit wires around on DSP board
Swap A+,A-, motor wires around to change direction.

Phew!!!!!

I can now engrave the job as it looks on the page.
I think there are about 12 different ways you can set up the limit switches which makes it probably the hardest thing to set up with these boards. It was for me anyway.

I have taken a few pictures of the engraving to show you.
I made a vertical hairline 10mm long then converted that to a bitmap of 600dpi and then sent it to the DSP/P-Cad for processing.

In Pic "A" using 80 mm/s and 20% power
#1 is an engraving with no return interval at all
#2 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.15

Pic "B" 100 mm/s and 20% power
#1 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.15
#2 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.20
#3 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.05 and 100 speed and 0.20
#4 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.05 and 100 speed and 0.40
#5 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.40

Pic "C"
#1 is an interval of 100 speed and 0.10 and 150 speed and 0.20 with 120 mm/sec and 20%power
#2 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 150 speed and 0.20 with 20 mm/sec and 10%power
#3 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.15 with 20mm/s and 10% power
#4 is an interval of 50 speed and 0.10 and 100 speed and 0.15 with 60mm/s and 20% power and X-Unilateral

The rest of the pictures are pretty well self explanatory to give you a look at what I have.
Sorry I haven't done this before but I just forgot to do it. I reread some of your posts and you do indeed ask me a lot for pictures so here they are. I have a heap more but I think this is enough for now.
The wiring is terrible and I am going to use a ribbon cable tomorrow to wire up the step and direction ports on the motor drives just to clean it up a little and stop any stray signals from getting in there.

Rich.

[baccus61]

And here is the wiring diagram slightly changed from the "Minimum Wiring Configuration" file posted here on your site.
The General outputs are the same as the last board (the older version) and I still have 4.7 volts all the time at the pins and they won't turn on or off.
I have the motors wired up as the picture suggests and also like in the manual.

Let me know if there is anything else I have missed out.
regards
Richard.

[Tech_Marco]

Rich:

From your pictures, I really can't see the problem. It seems straight isn't it?
Now when I look at your setup, I'm concerning the 'noise' may be the 'bad guy'!

Remember, the PS is high voltage device and generate over 25,000V !!!. It can send electro magnetic field around and if a cable (not shield or twisted pair type) placed closed by, it will jam the noise! Also, do you have good grounding for both your PS and the machine?? You got to pay more attention on those issue. You may not think it's big deal, in fact, it's a BIG DEAL! What about the "HOT" wire from the PS, did you isolated it well, or you simply run it across of your setup. If so, it's BIG time!!

One more thing: did you clean up the lens (focus lens)? I remember that one of my customer complained not being able to print a stright line and ended up that it's focus lens not setup well and dirty.

My engineer said if you slower the speed and correct the issue, most likely that it's machine issue, not the card. You may not fine tune the driver or the motor parameters.

Marco

[baccus61]

Thanks for the reply Marco.
The engravings always come out straight but with double lines. You can see the laser firing the double lines so it's getting a signal telling it to engrave twice for each line.
I have had the same problem with all the Leetro set ups from the Linkmotion to your Version 1.2 and now the version 2.0.

It does indeed look like it may be in the build of the machine itself but I have rewired it probably 25 times all with the same results.
I used to have a RF laser on top of the table and I had the 1mm offset when it was like that. Now I have the glass tube and I still get the 1mm offset.
The high frequency wire is above all the other wires and goes straight out the top of the table and is probably 200mm away from the closest wire so that shouldn't be a problem.
The laser power supply is grounded to the earth wire on the power supply wire. The table top is melamine coated MDF so there won't be any conductance through that.

Today I put ferrite cores on the signal wires going to the drivers and no better results. Still the same.
I also earthed the shield of the motor wire cable on the drive end and still the same result.

Tonight I done a few more tests and now I can't engrave at speeds over 110mm/s without it losing steps. I used to get 300mm/s out of the old V1.2 board.
I also put another motor on it with a dampener on the back of it with no gain in performance. It's the same motor I had on it when I used to get 300mm/s out of it with plenty of power as well. It used to shake the whole table to pieces if I went too fast. Now it dribbles.

I will buy another smaller USB cable for it as the one I have is 1m long and might be causing some problem.
It does look like it might be noise but I just can't find the problem area.

It must be very subtle as it's always been the same for the past year no matter what I do to try to correct it.
Also, if I engrave over 80mm/sec with X-Swing the engraving is offset 5mm so I get 2 distinct versions of the same file separated by 5mm.

I think it's time to rip the whole guts of the machine out and start all over again, again, again, again etc etc,
God I'm sick of it.
Thanks for all your help. I know you must be racking your brain as well and I'm sorry if I have kept you from your business for too long.
I WILL find the problem and when I do I will broadcast it to the world.......
I am the most patient person in the world now I think.
regards
Richard.

P.S. Yes, the lens is clean and brand new. I have seen a broken lens do this but mine are all new as well as the mirrors. Still the same with the new 63.5mm lens as it was with the old 50mm lens.
If I slow the speed down any more I may as well go back to the old software only set up as it's about the same right now with no performance gain having the DSP board. It must be a noise issue....Grrrrrrrrr. Where is my ......

I just had another thought. I haven't grounded the DSP board itself. I wonder if that might be a problem. Something to try before I rip out it's guts.

[twehr]

I have taken a few pictures of the engraving to show you.
I made a vertical hairline 10mm long then converted that to a bitmap of 600dpi and then sent it to the DSP/P-Cad for processing.
Rich.

Rich,

I love the look and simplicity of your machine. You really should share your machine photos and build history over at BuildLog.net. I, for one, would like to see any drawings/info you have about your design.

tim

[Tech_Marco]

Rich:

My enginner couldn't duplicate your problem. They're wondering how could you get double solid line in your case. They said that it's unlikely it's caused by the DSP card but machinary issue somehow.

Well, the best I can offer is that and if you're willing to, send the card back and let them try it. They send you another card for testing. If the problem still exist, you know then, it's not a card issue. I think it's the less pain and the fastest way to get you the answer.

In this case, you don't need to pay for the return shipping cost. I'll have my staff there to ship you a new one. But you got to pay for shipping cost for sending it back. Thank you for your support and help on this forum, this is something I can do for you

Marco