Help!Same model Co2 tube has different aluminum laser heads?

[Raman Narayan]

I recently bought http://www.lightobject.com/45W-CO2-Seal ... -P751.aspx 45W
Co2 tube from lightobject .
I find a difference in the aluminum laser head between the supposedly
same tubes .
The product is supposed to have manufactured by "Bill Laser Products",
with the model number being 1000.

Only one tube has an extension of the aluminum head(as shown in the
picture), while the other(s) does not have this(could post a pic. if needed ).
Not sure if this could affect the tube life in future(esp. the short aluminum laser head,
the one without the neck/grooved portion). The extra grooved portion adds about 5mm
to the total legth of the tube. The tube is supposed to handle upto 50W at 100% power.
Would sincerely appreciate if anyone from tech support/other members could shed
some light , to take appropriate steps to prevent a premature failure(such as
keeping a close eye on the tube operating temperature/current etc.). I am also
not sure, if I need to contact lightobject for exchange due to the same reasons.

I would also note that the serial number on the long neck aluminum head
tube is later than the other(s).

Thanks/Best Regards
Raman Narayan

[Tech_Marco]

Hello Raman

All those tubes are from the Bill. The aluminum head has nothing to do with the life span. No need to be panic. It's very standard tube. We will stop using BIll's tube but using another supplier in the near future.


Marco

[Raman Narayan]

Hi Marco,

Thanks for the positive affirmation. Could you send me PM, if there was
any issues in the past, or why you will stop using Bills Products?(I am just
interested in taking care of the tube properly-right cooling/current etc).
I am also posting the pics. if that is of any help in showing the differences.

Thanks/Regards
Raman Narayan

[Tech_Marco]

The Bills laser is OK for 60W and 80W. I heard that their 100W was not very stable so I stop carrying their 100W even though they launched a 100W tuble "looks" like the Reci. Plus their price wasn't cheap.

The other reason I stop importing their tubes because I don't like the way they handle their tubes. The 40W ~ 80W are pretty stable but I don't like the way to pack it, and the way the supplier dealing with me when problem exists. First of all, I hate to see 'finger print' or powerder (or dust) all round the tube after testing. I'm selling tubes for as low as $200 to as high as $2000, it's not a cheap item and I want my customer happy to receive a clean and nice tube but not 'dirty'. Plus, very odd that some tube has a mark done by melting. I asked the supplier why it happened and he said that it's just a marking. But I don't think it's a good idea ot put any marking by melt down to the surface. Who know what it could happen on that melt spot. Then, when it came to a problem like a cracked tube, the supplier want me to broke the tube, take the lens/mirror out and mail back to him in order to quality for a replacement. Before I deal with him, he promised that he didn't need me to do so like other supplier request. But, it seems it is not the true. It seems that he has no 'trusty' on me so why would I want to deal with someone who has no trusty on me and on my company. By the way, his price for me isn't very good either. As you said, one of the tube has different setup even though it has no harm and peform the same way. But, it's not good for the same item but not looks the same once a while. You have complained, belive me I did complain it as well.

Now, I got better SP tube for less cost. The SP is very famous for quality. They don't over production and they have better quality control. The SP is located in ShangHai, China. You know, ShangHai has better quality product than other place else. I just found another party selling 700mm and 850mm laser tube in ShangHai. Now I have other 4+4 for preliminary testing. So, no more Bill's laser. They failed to meet my standard on both quality control and customer serivces.


Marco

[Raman Narayan]

Hi Marco,

Thanks a lot for the detailed response on my info. request on Bill Lasers.
I totally agree with you(I've actually bought a supposedly new Engraver, that
not only had a dirty tube, but was also bad - I could not do much about it since
I ended setting it up a bit late).
I do like the way the tubes are packed and has no issues so far physically(yet
to test them, but mostly sure it will function alright).
I did also go through the scarce internet info. on billlasers and find that the tubes
should work fine, if I am careful to keep the temp. to 15-20C(should not be an issue
since I've setup my custom high power(270W+) TEC chiller, with associated temp controller
and an extra large ice cooler box as a reservoir, with pumps on both inlet and return
lines), and ensure dirt free laser window(tends to cause overheating/cracking of the transparent
mirror).

I do plan to add some additional epoxy potting compound(electrically non conductive one on
the high voltage end, and a thermally conductive one on the low voltage end) on both the
sealed ends, to take care of any potential arcing/better seal to take care of any escaping gas,
and to reduce the possibility of thermal shock on the glass metal interface.

I am already happy with the level of customer support I get with LOBJ.
Since you seem to take care of the issues upfront(checking/ensuring quality on
delivery), any additional cost I pay is worth the peace of mind.

If everything works fine, I will probably post some pics , which might help other members.

Thanks/Regards
Raman Narayan

[Tech_Marco]

Hi Marco,


I do like the way the tubes are packed and has no issues so far physically(yet
to test them, but mostly sure it will function alright).

Raman, it's not the original packing from Bill's. The packing was done by my staff who spent 30min to an hr, depends on the size of tube, to re-packed it with extra layer of soft foam and box. The original packing from Bills or other laser supplier was just a single box like the picture showing. If we shipped it without 'double' box, and the extra layer of foam, 99.99% it would have cracked by UPS or Fedex.

Even with our double box, UPS cracked 3 of 5 tubes so we switched to Fedex. So far so good and none has trouble with handling. FYI, the packing of laser tube seems easy but it's not. Plus, it is high cost


Marco

[Raman Narayan]

Hi Marco,

The photos did not do justice to the extensive hi-density foam all around the
tubes fragile areas, and the double box, and the plenty of (blaringly bright )
fragile stickers,glass warning stickers etc all around the box.
Yes, I understand packing of the laser tube is an art more than science, and
and comes after a lot of experience some of which is not in your control(
such as UPS vs Fedex vs specific carrier for specific place? ) etc.
I think this should be one of the primary reasons to get laser tubes from LOBJ,
unless someone is ready to wait closing their eyes and crossing their fingers,
to have a look at their surprise package after a long wait.
I am also sure that,No one can match the local shipping rates and the short
turnaround times of LOBJ, apart from the already good prices .

Thanks/Regards
Raman Narayan

[Raman Narayan]

Hi Marco,

Hope you could answer this question.
I did get to complete/test my power meter(using a pre-calibrated ophir analog head with built-in amp/precision
4 1/2 digit voltmeter from lightobject along with simple microcontroller ckt. that i cooked up.) with the previously
purchased 45W tube. I was surprised to find the power from the supposedly 50W(max) 1000mm tube is only 38.5
Watts(right after the laser output window), even at the rated 18mA(actually the current ran to about 18.5mA-again
using a lightobject digital panel meter for the same). The power dropped only about 2-3 watts after three mirrors.
The laser was well cooled(10-15C) the whole time.
Now the question is, how can I get the rated 45W from the tube, or even 50W. My initial test with a very little overdrive
(with around 21mA), hardly increased the power output by couple more watts.
The power test was done with 6 seconds of rated current through tube. The laser was test fired from the DSP panel,
adjusting the percentage(60%) power to closely match the rated current.
On a side note, I also tried to reduce the power percentage to 10% the tube produced a bare 0.7 Watts and then
3.6 Watts for 20%. Tube did not fire less than 10%(power almost dropped to zero at 7%).
Is the power level measured, consistent with the variations of tubes within this class? How much the life of the
tube will be affected if I tried to get atleast 45W(not sure of the current increase needed) if not the max 50W.

Thanks/Regards
Raman

[Tech_Marco]

1000mm long tube the rate power is 40W but could be over-driven to 45W or 50W max. It doesn't mean that it could really reach at that level. Just like the Reci W8 tube rated at 150W and 180W (peak) and some laser manufacturers in China claimed that there machine is a 180W or 200W by using such tube. To get 45W or 50W, you have to have 20mA or around. If you can reach 40W with 1000mm tube, then you're good. The power is measured right after the laser tube but not going through any mirrors or lens. If you want 50W power, I will suggest you to get a 1.2M (1200mm) tube instead without scarify the life span.


Marco

[Raman Narayan]

Hi Marco,

Thanks for the clear explanation . I was also thinking that overdrive of the
tube upto 40W to be fine(since the tube is 1000mm, and may not overheat),
now that I have Marco's seal of approval it should be fine to give it a try .
Is there a reci tube that is 1000mm and has power in the range of 60-80W?.
My machine does provide a opening to install tubes more than 1000mm, but
I would like the tube fully enclosed for safety reasons. Anyway, I should be fine
for the time being with the 40W, but would surely look for a 60-80W in future
to reduce the cut/engrave times. I might even get one of the new lightobject
machines .

PS: Thanks for deleting the redundant post.

Thanks/Regards
Raman

[Tech_Marco]

Try not over 20mA for 1000mm tube or it will affect the tube's life span dramatically. Plus, over current a lot will not get you too much power but in opposite (was told about it).

Reci only make 80W the smaller tube (W) as I know. The length of 80W is 1.44M long. So, 1000mm is not going to fit it. If you have to, you can simply cut a hole on your machine to allow the extend of the tube, then upgrade the 40W power supply to 60W or 80W will sure do the job. But, there are two 80W tube: standard 80W with 60mm in diameter or 80mm for Reci tube. So, you need to take it into account. Missing that calculation will get you headache to align the laser beam

Plus, I don't recommend to upgrade a small machine like the K40. K40 comes with gold plate mirror (glass base) and low quality focus lens. Furthermore, the limiting working space is another factor that I won't do upgrade for it.

Advertisement time: I'll ordered 7 machine to the stages in about 2 months for demo. They're very solid made and flexible to do upgrade. Default is 60W and you can go for 80W standard or Reci. Two models: with power Z or without. Will ship direct from the warehouse in China to the state but I recommend you to come over my warehouse to test it. We will move to a big warehouse (15,000sqf) on June.


Marco