Need help with getting setup properly.

[twosoc]

HI, I'll admit it from the start I now realise I have no idea what I'm doing. I bought this system as I thought it would be easier than this, I'm wondering if I should have gone for the full spectrum engineering option. I had no idea setting it up would be so complicated.

I have, like a lot of people, upgraded a moshi k40iii machine. I think I've struggled to work out the wiring, although the home limits don't work yet (i've got a helper who's on holiday coming to sort that out), and I think I've owrked out why it seemed to act like a spider on a hot plate. (is there a demo file stored in the card memory? as it looks like it should be something when its run, its just a bit deformed and doesn't do it when you clear the memory)

I've read the manual many times and whilst it explains in part what each setting does I don't completely understand.

I constantly get the beyond size message and nothing I seem to do changes it. I've tried to alter the work size, or the position and the acc speed but to no avail. Before the "upgrade" the machine happily cut 320 x 240mm, please tell me that I don't need sacrificial space around the work piece to allow it to speed up?

I have the 2012 dsp 608
2x 2m542 stepper drivers
1x power supply from light object.


I'm using the original motors that came with the machine, do I need to swap them out or just change the settings for them?

the next question is what are the optimum stepper driver settings for them, I have them on the minimum 1a and 400 steps, but I can't seem to find anything that equates to that as each bit of information seems to mention steps per inch or per rotation, not whats written on the driver itself.

In the manufacturers settings is the Range the size of the work piece? and is it in mm? So for a sheet of mdf thats 300x 200 would you enter those numbers? Or give a bit of room either side.
Regardless of how I setup the page it seems to want to run further than the machine limits, on the bottom and right hand side.

I can't seem to power the 5v for the optical limit, the only working power outlet for that I could find was in laser 1 and it doesn't seem to work, we have thought of getting a 24v to 5v converter but we'll have to wait until my helper gets back from holiday.



Thanks for reading all this if anyone does, I'm so far out of my depth its not funny, I really appreciate any help people can give me, I'm sure it'll be one of those "of course" moments when its explained, but I'm about ready to cry with frustration with it.
I'm really wondering if I should have gone for the $700+ full spectrum plug and play option.

thanks in advance.
Tim (heading for a nervous breakdown).

[waltfl]

Hi tim
dont get nervous
first the message " beyond size " tells you that your project is bigger as the laser can provide with the settings in the download menue
ther are a way around :
if you have a big pice to work then you need to set the speed down probably to 100 to 200 mm/s the probleme is that the laser needs some more room in higher speed to make sure it fires exactly.
the settings for the stepper driver is a bit confusing some of the motors from some K40 can not take more then 4 microsteps see attached manual. the measurments are all in mm .
you need after setting the micro steps ( evry time you change the settings dip switches) you need to do this
generate a square of 50mm in lasercut then send it to the machine and let it run measure the size the go to manufacturer settings and click the dottet botton on the X and Y line ther open s up another submenue wher are two lines to top one is the measurment what you have generated and the bottom line there you put the number in what you just have measured the same by the Y line.
make another test run and measure again and revise if the measurments not right.
yeah with the limited switch I always had probleme with the existing ones and I changed them against mechanical end switches and tihs works perfect and its easier then to fiddle around.
in the manufacurer settings you put the work area of the machine in like 340x 220 the usually K40 size not the work piece.
you also need to put in top left or right as home position.
ok so far, if you got more questions send me a pm to ( a542002@hotmail.com)
greetings
walt

HI, I'll admit it from the start I now realise I have no idea what I'm doing. I bought this system as I thought it would be easier than this, I'm wondering if I should have gone for the full spectrum engineering option. I had no idea setting it up would be so complicated.

I have, like a lot of people, upgraded a moshi k40iii machine. I think I've struggled to work out the wiring, although the home limits don't work yet (i've got a helper who's on holiday coming to sort that out), and I think I've owrked out why it seemed to act like a spider on a hot plate. (is there a demo file stored in the card memory? as it looks like it should be something when its run, its just a bit deformed and doesn't do it when you clear the memory)

I've read the manual many times and whilst it explains in part what each setting does I don't completely understand.

I constantly get the beyond size message and nothing I seem to do changes it. I've tried to alter the work size, or the position and the acc speed but to no avail. Before the "upgrade" the machine happily cut 320 x 240mm, please tell me that I don't need sacrificial space around the work piece to allow it to speed up?

I have the 2012 dsp 608
2x 2m542 stepper drivers
1x power supply from light object.


I'm using the original motors that came with the machine, do I need to swap them out or just change the settings for them?

the next question is what are the optimum stepper driver settings for them, I have them on the minimum 1a and 400 steps, but I can't seem to find anything that equates to that as each bit of information seems to mention steps per inch or per rotation, not whats written on the driver itself.

In the manufacturers settings is the Range the size of the work piece? and is it in mm? So for a sheet of mdf thats 300x 200 would you enter those numbers? Or give a bit of room either side.
Regardless of how I setup the page it seems to want to run further than the machine limits, on the bottom and right hand side.

I can't seem to power the 5v for the optical limit, the only working power outlet for that I could find was in laser 1 and it doesn't seem to work, we have thought of getting a 24v to 5v converter but we'll have to wait until my helper gets back from holiday.



Thanks for reading all this if anyone does, I'm so far out of my depth its not funny, I really appreciate any help people can give me, I'm sure it'll be one of those "of course" moments when its explained, but I'm about ready to cry with frustration with it.
I'm really wondering if I should have gone for the $700+ full spectrum plug and play option.

thanks in advance.
Tim (heading for a nervous breakdown).

[twosoc]

thanks Walt, I'll try those suggestions, however I'm not sure that everything is correct as the square I'm trying to try it out with is only 30mmx30mm, regardless of where I put the square it says beyond size. I think I might slip down to town tomorrow and pick up a small limit switch and replace the optical one like you said. I can't remember off hand what speed settings I have now, I think they were the ones you posted as a pdf in another thread.
Tim.

[waltfl]

Hi tim
I have attached a few initial settings what I have used with the other people ad give you some sucess.
then go to your display press menue - scroll to lasersettings select software press enter then ESC
now the laserhead should start at the point where you set it in the software.
also allways press reset on the display and datum in the software because many times the memorie does still has some parts of older files in it and then gets confused when a new file is loaded.
I hope you did connect the stepper driver the right way in >in on the DSP
try to control the laser head with the arrow bottons on the display see if this works .
greetings
walt

thanks Walt, I'll try those suggestions, however I'm not sure that everything is correct as the square I'm trying to try it out with is only 30mmx30mm, regardless of where I put the square it says beyond size. I think I might slip down to town tomorrow and pick up a small limit switch and replace the optical one like you said. I can't remember off hand what speed settings I have now, I think they were the ones you posted as a pdf in another thread.
Tim.

[twosoc]

hmm, setup exactly as you had in the pictures, still says engrave beyond size when trying to do a 20x20mm box. the steppers do work fine via the panel, so I'm guessing they;re wired up ok.
I'm getting a bit disappointed with this system, first the usb port doesn't work now the size error. I swear I'll be bald by the time it works, with all the hair tearing out.

[waltfl]

Hi tim
hmmmm you are the only one from 5 guys who have converted there machine who got this probleme, maybe the DSP has realy a probleme.
but now try the following : go to the soft ware load the square file in the machine then click the click box botton in the program and see
what is happen.
maybe delete the soft ware reload then load the version 5.95 and set all the settings new and try it
greetings
walt

hmm, setup exactly as you had in the pictures, still says engrave beyond size when trying to do a 20x20mm box. the steppers do work fine via the panel, so I'm guessing they;re wired up ok.
I'm getting a bit disappointed with this system, first the usb port doesn't work now the size error. I swear I'll be bald by the time it works, with all the hair tearing out.

[twehr]

thanks Walt, I'll try those suggestions, however I'm not sure that everything is correct as the square I'm trying to try it out with is only 30mmx30mm, regardless of where I put the square it says beyond size. I think I might slip down to town tomorrow and pick up a small limit switch and replace the optical one like you said. I can't remember off hand what speed settings I have now, I think they were the ones you posted as a pdf in another thread.
Tim.

Where is your Origin set and is the origin mode (control panel menu item) set to use the origin from software or from the panel?

Origin Mode LCD Panel: Regardless of where the head currently is, it will try to run the job at the current Origin as set by pressing the Origin button on the LCD Panel.

Origin Mode Software: Will start the job at the position relative to page zero as it appears on your LaserCAD software.

Also check your Position Relative setting in the menus LaserCAD. If you are near a boundary and have it try to run so that it would be out of bounds, it will also give you that error.

[waltfl]

here are two more settings to check see attached picture
greetings
walt

thanks Walt, I'll try those suggestions, however I'm not sure that everything is correct as the square I'm trying to try it out with is only 30mmx30mm, regardless of where I put the square it says beyond size. I think I might slip down to town tomorrow and pick up a small limit switch and replace the optical one like you said. I can't remember off hand what speed settings I have now, I think they were the ones you posted as a pdf in another thread.
Tim.

Where is your Origin set and is the origin mode (control panel menu item) set to use the origin from software or from the panel?

Origin Mode LCD Panel: Regardless of where the head currently is, it will try to run the job at the current Origin as set by pressing the Origin button on the LCD Panel.

Origin Mode Software: Will start the job at the position relative to page zero as it appears on your LaserCAD software.

Also check your Position Relative setting in the menus LaserCAD. If you are near a boundary and have it try to run so that it would be out of bounds, it will also give you that error.

[Things]

Yes, check what origin settings you have on the DSP in the menu. I was always getting the beyond size errors, figured out the origin mode in the DSP and that fixed it right up.

Dan

[twosoc]

Right, I managed to get it to do the box cut and the box run. The "start" button makes it move to the centre top, then halfway down the page then speed off to the bottom right and crash into the stops. Firstly, what is the box run and cut doing? is it marking out the limits of the page or is it drawing the 30mm box I put on the page?

Either way it pretty much runs/cuts in the top left regardless of where the box is located on the page. It seems to work every so often then it will have a wobbly and try to cut run the box towards the left hand side of the machine all the way to the limits. If I enter the expected and actual measurements on the ... button, it gives me a setting of about 1.5646 for x and 0.42 for y, which if you then try to run the box merely makes the head judder in place.

Does anyone have a complete step by step guide to wiring up the 2012 board? I thought if anyone does then I might just start from scratch and make sure its all correct rather than the way we did it by searching the forum fora little bit here and a little bit there, as that way its easy to miss something or misunderstand which bits relevant. I have read the manual from cover to cover, but whilst it points out what each part is it doesn't really explain why it does it or how. I'm sure if you are already familiar with these things or lasers in general then maybe its a bit clearer. I've found the trouble is that various people have referred to the same things by different names and its quite confusing. for example, I've seen people refer to the gold box with the blue and red wire as a power supply a distribution box, a power source and a laser supply. but I've also seen the silver box with the perforated holes in described as some of these.

Maybe its a case of having the stepper wires in the wrong section. I printed out the how to from I think it was twehr but it referred to the 2011 broad, does anyone know if they are close enough together to make it work? I'll sit down with a brew and have a good read, and maybe things will make more sense if I can read them in sequence.

I know I'm possibly the slow child of the class, but there's some kind of mental block thats not letting me see why things aren't working.
I really appreciate all your help and patience. you guys are saints.
Tim.

[Things]

The wiring for the 2011 and 2012 should be basically the same, most, if not all stepper controllers use the standard step/dir pin combination.

If the head judders when you set the pulse setting, it means it's trying to run it too fast. Changing the pulse setting in turn effects the relative speed of the machine. When you are calibrating the machine for the first time, you should make it move as far as your bed will allow, and make it move very slowly so there is no risk it's skipping steps. The larger the distance you make it move, the easier it is to see errors in your calibration.

The fact it always cuts in the top left means your origin mode on the DSP is set differently. If you want it to cut exactly where you have it on the software, I believe you need to set it to "soft origin" mode.

Run box makes the head do an outline of the entire job, so you can make sure it's gonna fit on your material, so if you draw a 30x30mm box, it'll draw that out.


Dan

[waltfl]

Hi tim
I guess oyu need to start over with thinking how.
ok the descriptin from twehr is still valid if you got the same parts. if you woyuld make a few picture of your machine and the interior then we could see what is going on.
yes there is so many descriptions for the same thing with different names this comes that the most who start does not know the right name.
for exaple the " gold box" is mostly tyhe laser power supply but some manufacturer put a blue one in there starts the confusion that why a picture tell 1000 words.
dont worry about how it looks when you take pictures we are not judging just try to help.
for the settings on x and y it starts with the dipswitch settings on the driver"
SW5=on
sw6=off
sw7=on
sw8=on
the settings for the current should be :
sw1=off
dw2on
sw3=on
the dipswitch 4 should be off
see the attached manual this is for all 2m542 driver does not matter what letters are in front
on the connection side :
dir > dir
pull > step
+5V
gnd
the motor
a+to a+
a_to a-
b+ to b+
b-to b-
you need to find the two pairs a+ and a-, and b+ and b-
thats all what you need for the motors
attached are a diagram of all the connection.
greetings
walt

[twehr]

Firstly, what is the box run and cut doing? is it marking out the limits of the page or is it drawing the 30mm box I put on the page?

Either way it pretty much runs/cuts in the top left regardless of where the box is located on the page. It seems to work every so often then it will have a wobbly and try to cut run the box towards the left hand side of the machine all the way to the limits. If I enter the expected and actual measurements on the ... button, it gives me a setting of about 1.5646 for x and 0.42 for y, which if you then try to run the box merely makes the head judder in place.

Both box cut and box run are using the bounding box of you object, not the work area. The only difference is that box cut turns on the laser, and box run does not.

If you are getting/using step pulses that small, then you have your gearing and micro stepping set too high. For 1000 steps/inch, thos numbers should be in the neighborhood of 25.4xx. I believe I saw someone write that numbers less than 1 basically don't work at all.

[twosoc]

hey, thanks for all the help chaps, I deffo gonna start from scratch again hopefully tomorrow, as I have my origins and pages set up as you suggested, plus the steppers set to 400 and half current, so I'm hoping its just a wire in the wrong place.

Just out of curiosity, I had a look in the download sections and downloaded what I think are the right drivers etc, I'm wondering if there's something I missed and thats why the usb port isn't working. Which downloads do you guys think are essential? I thought that they would have come with the dsp, but I guess not. I'm really hoping its just a bad connection somewhere I will admit I was a little surprised at the packaging and I hope its not a damaged board, it was just in a antistatic bag in a large box with peanuts in but the power supply and the stepper motors were loose in there too, I hope they didn't bash about too much over the Atlantic.

I'll try to get some clear photo's done, and try to do my best explaining what plugs into what.

cheers, Tim.

[waltfl]

Hi tim
what version of computer you are using ? if you use XP then the driver is allready inc;luded in the download and comes up during installation if you using win7 then you need to download the 64 bit driver extra and install them before you install lasercut.
did you also download the system update like this or dependend on your board version ( go on the display menue to the last position and write down the version and post it)
this downloads are allways updated because of the changeing which result out of requests from practicer.
greetings
walt

hey, thanks for all the help chaps, I deffo gonna start from scratch again hopefully tomorrow, as I have my origins and pages set up as you suggested, plus the steppers set to 400 and half current, so I'm hoping its just a wire in the wrong place.

Just out of curiosity, I had a look in the download sections and downloaded what I think are the right drivers etc, I'm wondering if there's something I missed and thats why the usb port isn't working. Which downloads do you guys think are essential? I thought that they would have come with the dsp, but I guess not. I'm really hoping its just a bad connection somewhere I will admit I was a little surprised at the packaging and I hope its not a damaged board, it was just in a antistatic bag in a large box with peanuts in but the power supply and the stepper motors were loose in there too, I hope they didn't bash about too much over the Atlantic.

I'll try to get some clear photo's done, and try to do my best explaining what plugs into what.

cheers, Tim.